Tuesday, July 17, 2007

This just in

Some of you may have noticed the following comment to my previous post, submitted by a certain 'whoever injured':

IPRS warning------ IPRS,EMI and Polydor from all around the world is now on the way of tracking this page and all the pages linked from this site.you have made loss of crores of money for us by publishing music from our copyrighted materials free to the world.Without mentioning our ways how to reach your place and arrest you,just giving you the warning.If Polydor's Sholay or any other EMI (HMV) or Polydor materials seen published here hereafter,you will be caught and punished.We have other brother concerned Music Companies also who are effected already or possible to get effected for the future.They also will be joining hands with us. This message is a warning also to all the free downloaders of our copyrighted materials who visit this site.

I'm pondering this one... like, is it for real? The IPRS sure is, no doubt about that, but is it really them who's posted this? Why no signature? Why the silly 'whoever injured' moniker? Why is the English so abysmal when, as shown on their website, the IPRS have perfect command of the language? Why the amateurish, crass tone ('reach your place and arrest you, just giving you a warning'... have they been watching too many bad Bollywood movies?) Why are 'IPRS, EMI and Polydor from all around the world' bothering with a blog attracting some 3-500 readers? Why on earth place their warning as a comment to one of my posts when a direct contact email is readily available on my profile page?

I'm not entirely convinced this is really them... but if it is and they're reading this, PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY WITH A SIGNED MESSAGE, explaining to me what harm has been done. I will then obligingly (if not happily) cease and desist. Well, the blog will anyway.

Anyone know their way around copyright law at all? Do the IPRS actually have jurisdiction outside of India? On the other, if they do represent Polydor or EMI, both of which are as multinational as they come and who frankly scare me in every possible way (they're evil), I need to take this seriously. I'm noticing now that all(?) previous uploads have been deleted again as well... So, no more albums until this is sorted (there wasn't going to be for a bit anyway... might be longer now, boo! :-/)

Thoughts?

41 comments:

  1. Absolutely *love* the site. This looks totally fake. "They also will be joining hands with us." Numerous capitalization and grammatical errors.

    Like most people I don't have a whole lot of confidence of in terms of how intelligent the record industry is these days (they seem to be doing their best to self destruct) but I would hope they at least have enough money left to run spell check. What are "crores of money" anyways?

    On a different note: once again, great blog. RD and SD burman are my all time favorites.

    Keep up the good work amigo!

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  2. yeah right! looks like someone just copy pasted this.

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  3. A crore is actually '(in India) the sum of ten million, esp. of rupees; one hundred lacs.'... but yeah, as if 500 people downloading ripped-from-vinyl albums, the majority of which are and will continue to be otherwise unavailable, is making anyone lose anything.
    PC x

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  4. I agree that this message looks fake, but as for int'l copyright law, works are almost universally treated the same way regardless of their countries of origin (assuming the countries are part of the Berne Convention, as almost all nations are). I can't speak to the English proficiency of IPRS lackeys, so I guess anything's possible...

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  5. Fair point about Berne, and when it all comes down to it, I'm sure the IPRS have the law on their side. Again though, if it is them. As for their lackeys, English proficient or not, I'd imagine they'd have a standard wording for this sort of thing, one that doesn't include mobter phrasings...
    PC x

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  6. cowardness or proper warning?? anyways guys it's word of alert!!!...legally we are wrong if we challenge this..and yeah the IPRS is real! the link certainly leads to a law. i would humbly suggest not to post challenging comment notes against so called music industry or copyrights laws and tempt them to act.watch some days before doing further posts.If further complaints are sent legally and signed as demended by the blogger "PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY WITH A SIGNED MESSAGE" ,it's fair we should sadly choose not to disobey the law.

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  7. All around the Blogosphere, the new nazis are coming, they dont care about music, they dont care about an open minded attitude to music that really dont fit in today`s market and top sellers, they dont care about that whithout blogs like this one we`re gonna miss a lot of old sounds from the vaults....no....they are the law, and they have the law on their side...so, we are pirates...not the industry, who sells a cd for about 20 times more than is cost...and if i want my kind of music, they just dont sell it cause its not profitable....and if i really want that music (like some records from the 80s) its ok, i`ll just have to pay 20 times more than is cost for music with 25 years old....just great...
    Please keep up the good work....
    Sorry for my english...


    Louie
    Portugal

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  8. record companies are funny things, I find it funny that they don't realize that blogs like this provide promotion to the whole world of music that most people don't know and would have never heard. Does downloading albums from your website prevent me from buying my own copy? Definately not. It makes me buy the cds(re-issued) and buy or rent the movies. BAH to the whomever left that lame message! keep up the good work!!
    M

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  9. Ummm I thought Polydor India did not exist anymore - but rather it's under the whole Universal Music India label now - you would think that this poster would know that right? And EMI is now Sa Re Ga Ma, anyways. Bit dodgy that warning.

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  10. Guys We'v no job to enquire the registration amendments the companies made.The more we enquire these things,their law part we are agreeing.EMI can shift release codes to Sa Re Ga Ma,HMV or anything they prefer.the same to Polydor's collaboration with x,y or z.that's their business.i don't think a company like EMI or Polydor would go cheap to post a legal notice in the comments of a public blog like this.they could have attacked silently.that may be also why the warning is not a signed notice.well I would say that the encourgements we sow here mightbe enough to reap enormous piracy forces through internet after some months or years, who could gulp these companies....Do we really know who is posting the rips? who these Mat,Hardy or anonymous like me who are posting tonnes of ovations and gratitude?and who is this "someone injured"? are someone really injured? No transparency for anything.For me i spent huge part of my earnings to buy vinyl,tape and cds.these music blogs help me save precious money now.I get tonnes of jazz or my favourite bollywood music from internet in best quality rips.the music i download from this blog and other blogs are enough for me to fill my leisure time so that i'm a stranger in music shops now where i used to be frequent visitor before 2 years. now 1 lp or cd with beautiful cover scans i get in under 1 min time in more than 200kbps speed.If sex and love we get in this blackmarket and freemarket, why can't music?!!! Well many anonymous people will be tellin in music blogs, "to hell these music companies" and i will silently agree to them!After listening a sample music of Don with my friend,I was desparate to buy a Don-cd,now no need for me to search for the cd as i have the rip in cd from this blog.Also many other rips posted here i get the advantage of finding bad scored music and skip them from occupying my original cds collection.I want more music and the blogs provide me free.i don't care the barkings of EMI or Polydor. Thanks a billion (or Crores lol) for all the posts you did.though i am sad that i have atleast 10 more rips to download from here which is impossible this moment

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  11. hi there iam in pakistan and let me tell u one thing this message is nothing its just someone is trying to make us laugh on this.coz i live in pakistan and here we have one of the biggest piracy market in the world specially with all the hindi movies and there soundtracks.even on line most of the web sites r carrying new soundtracks still no one has stepped up to take any action.

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  12. Shoot!! That's bad!!

    Even though it definitely sounds fake to me... the thing is that the files are gone too. What does that mean? That whoever wrote that made trouble at the server end too? To what purpose?

    Some other vested interests perhaps?

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  13. Someone prob clicked the link for file being copyrighted i think. Why would someone go after old stuff when they dont even release it anymore.

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  14. Something does not appear entirely "kosher" or even "halal" about the message that you received. For starters, such a message would necessarily have to have offered the digital form of letterhead, complete with a legitimate office, a signatory, and legal agents or representatives in different countries with which to file a grievance, or even to contact.

    As far as the Nigerian 419 style of clumsy english - it's true, that in itself is not enough indication of the message's veracity or falsehood. For example, the great comment left by Anonymous also contains classic grammatical missteps of the kind you will commonly see in the english subtitles of almost any Bollywood DVD, such as "we've no job to enquire" and "I used to be frequent visitor before 2 years" (or its common sister phrase "since two years"). However, there is a difference. One can immediately tell that the Anonymous post comes from an impassioned fan who is simply grammatically challenged as regards British or American standards, but most likely perfectly acceptable in the parlance of Indian english.

    On the other hand, the original "warning" - while potentially legitimate - not only contains classic clumsy grammar, but also numerous typos: commas not followed by spaces, and the substitution of "effected" for "affected." I find it of interest that two music companies which no longer exist, HMV India and Polydor India, are mentioned, but Universal Music India which is of course connected to the international Vivendi powerhouse, is not mentioned. Neither is it mentioned that the majority of rips you have posted have never been reissued and are now likely considered Public Domain due to their age.

    Plus, other searing points have already been mentioned by posters here: Are these Indian copyrights internationally administered, or only in India or only in Asia? What indeed of the thriving piracy that does exist in Pakistan, and still in India but to a lesser extent than in past decades as its corporate wealth and influence has grown. Quick example: It's quite clear that the theme song to 1965's "Gumnaam," which is sung repeatedly throughout the film, is a note-for-note pillage of Henry Mancini's "Masquerade." I guarantee that no legal action was ever taken against the film's producer, its distributors, or even SD Burman its musical director. But times do change, don't they?

    Modern example. Check out the IPRS website, which is in progress: http://www.iprs.org/
    Things to pay attention to include the History article, which does not explicitly indicate legal jurisdiction beyond Asia and Australia; the fact that in the main the article follows British/American grammar convention; the fact that publishing companies throughout the world are listed as "Sister Socities" without any clear or legal linkage which might help to document actual partnerships with those societies; cheesy clip art entirely out of keeping with a publishing society which is attempt to represent the august legacy, present, and future of Indian recorded music; and the section called "ORBITUARIES."

    I have scoured their website for any indication of a legitimate Legal Representative which might administer IPRS claimed, implied, or actual rights outside of India, Asia, and Australia, and found none. Whether this is an oversight on the webmaster's part or a tacit admission of limitation of legal reach can not be ascertained. The point is, it may well be that IPRS has joined venemous groups like the Record Industry Association of America in employing bullying squads of thuggish legal brownshirts such as SoundExchange, but at present we do not know this to be true.

    The message you received only threatens and refers to record companies which have not existed since the 1980s. It does not even appear to mention that it was sent by a true legal representative of IPRS, does it? On the other hand, it can be flatly stated that the Indian recording and film industry was under the thumb of organized crime for decades - something that stars like Amitabh Bachchan have fearlessly railed against in public (Jackie Chan did it in China as well).

    The IPRS website has a link to office locations, including email links. What you may wish to do, without specifics, is to inquire about the potential legitimacy of the message you received. You know who your fans are and you know we're on your side.

    Last recommendation: Maybe for now, rather than "Sholay," you might want to think about switching to older, safer, "evergreen" material preceeding 1970 and its delicious funk phase. The 1960s soundtracks are full of equally tasty approximations of period dance rock. "Jaan Pehechaan Ho" anyone?

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  15. Nothing but bunch of frustrated morons. This guy, whoever wrote that, needs proper schooling so that he can write better.

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  16. I hope its a fake.
    Your blog is a brilliant education

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  17. i'm the same anonymous impassioned fan about whom litlgrey shared his kosher vs halal thoughts.It should be appreciated that this section of comments is turning out to be a British-American Englees gramorr class.If litlegrey is not just another hidden ass,i challenge him to publish his address here so that i will come to him and learn necessary grammar to write a comment like this in this universal piracyland of internet.

    Litlegray did not see the anonymous Pakistani guy's funny english which goes exactly like [["hi there iam in pakistan and let me tell u one thing this message is nothing its just someone is trying to make us laugh on this.coz i live in pakistan and here we have one of the biggest piracy market in the world specially with all the hindi movies and there soundtracks. even on line most of the web sites r carrying new soundtracks still no one has stepped up to take any action" ]]].In this message he praises the piracy in Pakistan with lot pride (we have one of the biggest piracy market in the world... )Howdy?How's piracy goin' on? if someone have thoughts on "who have one of the biggest piracy market in the world?" the answer you read above. Litlegrey loved the contents of the comment, so ignored the grammar while reading it.

    Another agressive comment litlegrey made is a baseless one and an is absolute foolish blunder!!!It's this one [[[On the other hand, it can be flatly stated that the Indian recording and film industry was under the thumb of organized crime for decades - something that stars like Amitabh Bachchan have fearlessly railed against in public]]] what you mean? flatly or not,none should make foolish and agressive statements like this.one one hand,Litlegrey praises himself to be a passionate fan of bollywood soundtracks and composers and and on the other hand he says they were all criminals or had worked for criminals.Did someone shit?oh! it's the bullshit that Litlegrey wrote which's smelling shitty then

    Another statement from Litlegrey.this time to support plagiarism and thus to encourage piracy .he wrote [[[theme song to 1965's "Gumnaam," which is sung repeatedly throughout the film, is a note-for-note pillage of Henry Mancini's "Masquerade." I guarantee that no legal action was ever taken against the film's producer, its distributors, or even SD Burman its musical director. But times do change, don't they?]]] But times do change, don't they?any answers?!!lol . I was intrested in this topic so made a research and found that it's not SD Burman but duo composers Shankar Jaikishan who copied the tune from Mancini song for Gumanam(1965).I don't want to comment about litlegrey's poor knowledge but these doesn't clear the doubts of issue the blogger put for our suggestions.In his comment's 5,6,7,8 paragraphs,Litlegrey tells some silly findings about piracy and ways to escape from law.All this findings have only resulted in pointing fingers at the blogger only.I won't say anything about piracy issues and how to escape from it coz i don't think our blogger supports piracy. he may have helped piracy unknowingly but all i would say is that road should be clear.behind the mist,there should not be only anonymous people like the silly anonymous from Pakistan [who knows where from the world is he]and ever foolish litlegrey who talk as if the crime can be done at any cost and adding to the stupidity are his poor knowhow of English grammar, which he reciprocates and compares only with his local slang.

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  18. PC I hope that you will ignore the jealous rantings of the previous comment as we all know and respect Litlgrey who is known to all of us fellow music bloggers
    I am afraid that you will have to make your own judgement as to wether to continue or not
    Irrespective of anyone elses opinions or our selfish desires to listen to the rare albums you post its up to you
    Thank you for everything so far ....respect

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  19. Intresting thoughts some people made.Lemme tell,it ain't great to be a blog fan with fake fame.Litlgrey shouldn't have made such remarks.There weren't the slightest of grammatic error in the comments of the anonymous named person Litlgrey went after.I prefer the universal style of English speech.Regarding that point,i detect clumsiness in Litlgrey's English also and contradict to his ideas which lacked depth and which also sounded racial at times.
    As a fan of this blog,the deletions evoked rage in me. Alas,i cannot get things i eyed upon from here.A final thought and decisions to make is the blogger only.Gracias Amigo!

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  20. This is objectable. Let's just say I've just found 2 old platters of Bollywood stuff for which I get a definite "Your search did not match any products" from Amazon.com (just as an example, I'm talking about Doosra Aadmi OST (1977) http://rapidshare.com/files/44499635/Doosadmi.rar.html and Janwar OST (1965) http://rapidshare.com/files/44504475/Janwar.rar.html). How can I not rip the platters and share with friends? I definitely think that holding the rights to music and not publishing it is a despicable form of artistic censorship!

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  21. Wonderboy ...way to go :)
    Totally agree drop me your email (I've comment moderation so wont post it)& can set up a comments only blog ...no trace

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  22. A few things... As it was me who started the language/grammar/spelling thing, let me make it perfectly clear, in case it wasn't and since it's become something of any issue above: I don't have any problem whatsoever with people not being English proficient, be they bloggers, comment posters or even IPRS lackeys. I just found it odd, the discrepancy between the language on the latter's website and the received warning. That, and only that, was the point I was making. Don't make language and misunderstandings thereof into a reason for arguing or slagging others off... I'm convinced litgrey meant neither offence nor aggression in his comment, so please leave it at that, OK? :-)

    Besides, I think we're all on the same side regarding the real issue here, so it would be nice to keep things civil.

    Piracy's been mentioned... I'm getting the idea that the warning and deletions stem from bootleggers, possibly sensing their livelihood being threatened (bollocks, of course) rather than from any legitimately interested parties (either that or pranksters with too much time on their hands). Meaning the blog will continue, and previous albums will be re-uploaded. I just need to find out where... anyone have any ideas on how to share files without random arseholes being able to get them deleted without me being notified?

    And as always, thanks to all of you for your support :-)

    PC x

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  23. PC :applause: - that is exactly the way it should be, everything you said.

    You're my hero buddy! I am happy to inhabit the same space with you. Way to go :applause:

    About hosting your files... people way more informative than I will have to help you there.

    I know of people that host them at Gmail, but it entails passing on passwords et all, way too complicated to manage methinks.

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  24. How about protected links maybe...

    ...and PC, Thanks alot for sharing!

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  25. Protected links... how does that actually work? Because the one's I've tried (lix.in and another one I've forgotten the name of) inevitably end up displaying the URL you originally wanted hidden...
    Advice please, if anyone has any :-)
    PC x

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  26. I do wish to express several clarifications, although I think pc got my intended meaning and I thank him/her for supporting me.

    1) It is definitely the case that no grammatical snobbery was intended either towards the anonymous posters in this thread nor towards IPRS, nor towards whoever sent the threatening message. However, since I possess an Associates Degree in English I can assure everyone that I am familiar with British/American grammatical standards, and that differences exist as English has been written and spoken in India and Pakistan. I don't believe anyone has weighed in on whether these differences - as commonplace as they have become - have been ever been considered a separate-but-equal standard dialect. My message was netiehr written in slang, nor was it meant to antagonize the english usage of anyone here. Actually there WAS one grammatical error in my message but I didn't catch it until it had already posted.

    2) I am not an advocate of piracy, and neither am I some kind of secret agent doing the bidding of IPRS. In fact I live in Ohio in the USA; I buy onion naan from a local Indian grocery, I buy old Bollywood movies from Nehaflix, and I definitely use selections posted at this blog in my internet radio program, "Space Patrol," which airs Saturdays at http://luxuriamusic.com . Most people who look at me would take me either for caucasian, or what's now called caucasian-hispanic (kind of a racist American euphemism for a guy who looks white but MIGHT be a Mexican, so be careful what you say around him). Since I do follow news reports in which the American RIAA harasses ordinary people for alleged piracy which frequently prove to be unsubstantiated, I can tell you that my disgust of the record companies knows no bounds. Under no circumstances would I advocate behavior which might lead to potential liability with these thugs - that should have been clear from my first message. I can tell you that under the law, recordings which have fallen out of copyright protection because of their age, or because they were never protected in western Europe and the Americas to begin with, are safe to rip and to share without fear of prosecution. Furthermore, the advocacy website http://www.riaaradar.com/ tracks recordings which are "RIAA-Safe" and can legally be shared no matter where on the internet they appear. Additionally, the website http://archive.org lists a variety of record labels which release albums under the Creative Commons License, in which artists deliberately release their original music in a copyright-free environment without waiving their rights as composers. Lastly, the website of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, http://eff.org , famously tracks abuses by the US Government and by media conglomerates against ordinary citizens, and frequently files amicus (friend of the court) briefs on behalf of defendants in unscrupulous, baseless lawsuits against them.

    3) Yes, I did make a quickie mistake and identified the wrong composer for "Gumnaam." It wasn't SD Burman. My bad. By the way, there is a very bad DVD of "Gumnaam" floating around by a label called "Ultra DVD." Do not buy this print - the color is heavily faded, and the classic number "Jaan Pehechaan Ho" is faded out, mysteriously, one minute into the scene.

    4) Any suggestion that I have even the slightest contempt for Indian culture, Bollywood history, or whatever is truly unfounded. While I had hoped my advocacy of this site in the past would demonstrate that, I obviously failed to make a universally convincing case. While I might find the differences between what the anonymous poster calls "universal english" and what is accepted elsewhere humorous, I do not intend disrespect to Indian culture but I felt it important to point out the significant differences between the almost Queen's English of the pronouncements found at the IPRS website, and the lowbrow nature of the threatening message allegedly sent in their name.
    I confess I am surprised by the angry comments which my message generated, especially since I took care to express empathy with other posters. I wish to continue to express empathy with everyone who supports the wonderful cause of this blog!

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  27. as a lawyer, here are my thoughts :

    this kind of letter should be sent by a lawyer. anyway, this is absolutely not the way a lawyer would write it. so, just consider it bullshit.

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  28. Yup, all but the Pakistani one. I'm going to get them back up though, just need to figure out where and how, re. my previous comment above.
    PC x

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  29. this is happening at other blogs as well...check out http://chocoreve.blogspot.com/

    i am convinced this is a few people who see the interest that these out of print records generate..and they want to re-release them or bootleg and make some bucks...jealousy and greed it seems has reared it's ugly head.

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  30. Hi PC
    I am very sorry you have had all these problems
    Having run several blogs and experienced similar my advice is to move on and continue posting new stuff . Its only when you wish to leave a permanently accessible library of albums for DL that you get start getting deletions
    I am afraid that ALL upload hosts to protect there business will adhere to the rules
    Try sharebee where you can upload to several hosts at the same time

    Every blog that offers something for free has by the nature of the beast a limited life span , just enjoy the ride
    If anyone has requests from your archives just allow your readers to upload the link to the comments as a way of gratitude
    That works very well in my experience

    Good luck , move on and get posting :)

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  31. Re-uping and new posts will commence next week I hope.
    PC x

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  32. Excellent! Your attitude and forbearance throughout all this has been exemplary.

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  33. bollywood is the number one film industry in the whole world, why would they bother to pick on one blog, i mean what is the damage??
    like a 1%, or maybe a 2% of their profit??.... seriously.. c`mon!

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  34. Great, excellent decision. It's impossible to believe for a second that a representative from a professional Indian institution would pen a poorly written letter with the aim of trying to quash an obscure blog whose owner is posting even obscurer, out-of-print lps(!!!) which are between 30-50 years old! Thank-you for all your work up to this point, and much much luck in the future.

    Thanks again!!!

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  35. Eagerly waiting for the new posts!!!!!!!

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  36. Me too...please don´t let your faithful bolly-heads alone.
    Greetz,
    Jörn

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  37. While I miss the music, I have to say, I'm missing the beautiful scans almost as much. Hope you're back soon.

    Geoff

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  38. Blog, music and scans WILL be up again shortly, just been terribly busy the last week :-/
    (And I'm contemplating whether or not to give 'Sholay' a miss for the time being and posting something less famous...)
    PC x

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  39. PC ..hope its ok but as you have decided not post Sholay I have posted it on my blog for everyone

    http://elreza.blogspot.com/2007/08/sholay-1975-rd-burman-sholay-was.html

    I hope to see you back in good form soon and sincerley hope this does not offend :)

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  40. Of course it doesn't :-)
    Cheers Reza!

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